RE: The End of Myth

You are viewing a single comment's thread:

In these economic times people also aren't splurging on art. Sadly. I'm sorry for your disappointment. Don't hate me, but they'd also look great on greeting cards or notebooks. Not online, but perhaps alongside the exhibit or in local stores. The Oracle would look lovely on a notebook. But then you don't get the conversation you want, the other forms of recognition you crave.

A UBI for artists would be amazing. I can just hear the online naysayer trolls now. Australia would never accept such a thing. They barely accept art.



0
0
0.000
7 comments
avatar

A UBI for everyone would be great. Imagine how much happier and healthier we'd be as a society! It must come from somewhere, though. Until then, existence is all just a pain in the neck!

0
0
0.000
avatar

I think UBI is slavery. I will not accept it. I just worked 20 hours in two days, and as long as I can do that, I will live. When I can no longer carry my weight, I will prefer to die free than be kept as a pet.

That's just me, though.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Is there any fiction that has explored a world with UBI?

So much (and I've been reading a lot of Dick lately) is dystopia - but I am almost afraid of reading the utopian side of the coin - because dripping behind that facade will undoubtedly be the blood of those who couldn't wouldn't and refused to function.

I think we're conditioned to forever need and want - and your subsistence based on your value (work:life) feels to me like a form of slavery onto itself.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

"...your subsistence based on your value (work:life) feels to me like a form of slavery onto itself."

To whom, or what? A frog subsists on it's acquisition of prey no less or more than I do, and everybody does. However, society has developed specialists that raise prey species, produce electricity, roof houses, etc. We have further developed mechanisms of exchange - money - that enable us to predate, build, and empower vicariously by exchanging our specialty work for that of others.

When I earn my pay, to whom am I enslaved?

When I do not, I am enslaved to my paymasters, and will do as they prefer to keep receiving my pay, just as I do the work the community requires to receive my pay for working. This is the danger of UBI, that them dependent on it - and through inflation, everyone will become dependent on it - must grovel to the demands of the paymasters to get it.

That is slavery.

Edit:

"...the utopian side of the coin..."

https://www.sciencehistory.org/stories/magazine/mouse-heaven-or-mouse-hell/

0
0
0.000
avatar

I recently finished VALIS by our mutual PKD - It influenced me in a small way, if we are just machinations of the universe, perhaps the monster of reality itself is a slave.

This then turns my thoughts back to whether the universe is deterministic or a place of free will.

A slave has no choice, they must do their master's bidding, and I ask myself, are our minds slaves to our bodies, or the other way round? What sort of strange symbiotic or parasitic relationship do we have with the calorific content we consume, the energy we borrow, and return back into the void?

Perhaps here, not the place for such a discussion, but that video yoy shared of Dick's speech really did give me a different perspective on the nature of reality as he described it. A more open philosophical approach than my prior nihilism / atheistic / scientific approach to the cosmos and all being, and something instead more charged with energy and mystique.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I have also been influenced by PKD, and many other authors of Golden Age scifi, as well. I have considered consciousness much in the recent decade, and research showing how little and poorly we understand it. For example, when we're 'unconscious', such as sedated or sleeping, it has been shown that we're just unresponsive, but our minds are very active. Anyone that has remembered dreaming has realized their minds were working hard when they were sleeping. Calling that state 'unconscious' shows we don't have words in English (or any language AFAIK) that really are able to discuss consciousness, or our minds, spirit, soul, or etc.

We just have no idea, really, what we're actually talking about. Another thing is that we can't detect consciousness directly. There's no rays, fields, or forces that consciousness is we can measure. The only way we can detect consciousness is for animate creatures capable of making conscious decisions, such as learning a maze, taking actions that show they are making conscious decisions. We experience our consciousness ourselves, but that's anecdotal, not scientifically useful data.

What was really interesting to me is the finding that slime molds are shown to make conscious decisions, the above referenced learning to get through a maze, and they are single celled creatures. They only have one cell nucleus. They don't - can't - have brains, which are multicellular organs. This proves that brains aren't the source of consciousness, because single celled creatures are shown to make conscious decisions without having brains. I think we use our brains like calculators, and brains are useful to conscious beings and that is why they have evolved.

Here are some relevant physics to this issue. First, the No Hiding theorem shows that no information can be lost to the universe. This regards the state information of particles falling into black holes, but applies equally to our conscious minds and the death of our bodies. It means our persons, spirits, souls, or whatever you want to call what we are (we aren't meat, as hangnails prove) aren't lost to the universe when we die. Then there's the Principle of Least Action, which is a very weird fact that particles and forces always take the route that requires the least amount of action potential between a starting point and an end point. What's been shown to be happening is that every particle and wave actually take every route, and what is expressed in the physical universe is that one that required the least action potential out of all possible routes. Extraordinary and not what I would have anticipated, but, when you think about it, is the only way that forces can always take the route requiring the least action potential. But that leads to the Many Worlds/Multiverse hypothesis. Every single possible divergence from the universe we experience is taken, and every single universe that is possible, that results from each of those divergences, exists.

Perhaps that will blow your mind up, like it did mine.

Here's a cartoon I found that expresses the consequences of UBI, too.

UBI.png
IMG source - Malone.news

When we depend on income, we must do what it takes to get that income. In a couple hours I'm going to go work on a neighbor's house for which the neighbor will compensate me. That is the income I depend on for my survival, and what I do to get it.

UBI is income handed out by government. When money is handed out to everybody it causes inflation. If everybody has $50 that can be spent on hamburgers, will any hamburger vendors charge less than $50 for a hamburger? This inflation will force people to take UBI to survive by this inflationary means. I am also sure that everyone, without exception, considers government(s) to be corrupt. That will be the source of UBI. Just as my neighbor has certain requirements for providing me compensation, there will be requirements to receive UBI, and these requirements will be set by corrupt government.

I have a very derogatory view of government, and I am 100% confident that I do not want to meet their requirements to receive UBI.

Government Requirements to Receive UBI

I will prefer to hold corrupt government to account, as the Dutch did their Prime Minister in the 17th Century when they revolted and ate his liver, and that will require that I am able to support myself independently of UBI. If I must have UBI to live, how can I hold the provider of UBI to account for crimes without killing myself in the process? That is how UBI will enable the most horrific tyranny that is conceivable, and that is why I won't accept it, and will prefer to die free than be kept as a pet by the monsters that have corrupted government today.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Regarding the path of least resistance and particles taking every single path - this is something I knew - and I am very much a "believer" (if you have to "believe" in science?) that the Universe cannot possibly have only the one simultaneous existence. In many of them, I am probably already dead. Every possible outcome for every possible particle is an unfathomable quantum of what we might only be able to describe as a "Realm" - to which I refer to the universes beyond the one in which you and I appear to be having a shared ontology.

I know that your by-line states that your sons are better men than you, so please don't let me mince words when I say that your statements represent greatness - deep thought, meditation, and consideration to all of the points, and to tangents too.

I am always pleased (and grateful) whenever I get a reply from you, it gives me much food for thought. Many thanks!

0
0
0.000